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The Gorgon Speaks: An Interview with Cornell Campbell

The drum and the bass, the language, and the outlandish studio effects were what pulled me into reggae. But I became hooked by the vocals, becoming a full-blown addict as I began to appreciate and recognize Jamaica's great singers. Especially the soprano singers. There have been many wonderful high-voiced artists: Slim Smith, Ken Parker, Pat Kelly, Tabby Diamond, Leroy Sibbles, Delano Stewart, Junior Mervin, Roy Johnson and Cedric Myton (Congos), Derrick Lara, Junior "Tamlins" Moore, Junior Menns (Techniques), Eric Donaldson, the Manning Brothers (Abyssinians, Carlton and the Shoes), Bunny Wailer and tons more; not to mention the youth singers like Roman Stewart, Errol Dunkley, Freddy McGregor, Delroy Wilson, and Dennis Brown. At the front of this very long line I'd put Cornell Campbell. Not only because his voice seems to me the sweetest, but because he controls it so masterfully, with none of the strain or occasional pitch problems heard in the work of his peers. Cornell's delivery is always relaxed, the notes true and nicely detailed, the sweetness balanced by the right amount of melancholy. His body of work is substantial: over two hundred records, most of them fine covers of soul classics or his own rich originals.

Another remarkable thing about Cornell Campbell is the length of his career. I can't think of another Jamaican artist who has made hits in every one of its musical eras. Cornell made his first record at age nine, in 1956, well before the advent of ska; and he's still making music that's heard in today's dancehalls. During the ska era he voiced for Coxsone Dodd and Duke Reid's brother-in-law King Edwards. In the rocksteady era he was involved in the formation of three important harmony groups: the Sensations, the Uniques, and the Eternals. His solo career took off in 1968 when he returned to Studio One to write and record what may be Jamaica's best two-sider ever: Stars on the A side, Queen Of The Minstrel on the flip. Both are powerful love songs that epitomized Cornell's music, with their crisp arrangements, interesting chord changes, and feathery vocals. For the next decade he went on to become one of Jamaica's most popular singers, with big hits for Coxsone Dodd, Joe Gibbs, Ossie Hibbert, and especially Bunny Lee. (We'll discuss some of these below.) One of the best things about the music of the 70s was the work Bunny Lee did with singers like Pat Kelly, Derrick Morgan, John Holt, Jackie Edwards, John Holt and of course Johnny Clarke. His collaboration with Cornell Campbell was particularly fruitful, resulting in over one hundred recordings, including the first voicing ever done at King Tubby's studio.

Yet for all his talent and local popularity Cornell has had sparse international success, with no major hits and few concert appearances. Until recently he remained an obscure figure even to the people who avidly collect his music. I had tried unsuccessfully for many years to find him, and feared that he'd ended up in rough straits like so many older Jamaican artists. So I was surprised when Elliott Lieb brought Cornell out to San Diego, and gratified when Roger Steffens described him as "really together".

Last summer Warren Smith brought him out to Mendocino for the Sierra Nevada World Music Festival, and I was able to meet Cornell at his hotel the day before his appearance. Elliott had described him as a "prince", and that pretty much describes Cornell's appearance and demeanor. He's a tall man with dark black dreadlocks and beard and an unlined face who looks twenty years younger than his given age of sixty. He was polite but a bit guarded at first but became forthcoming after I plugged in a portable turntable and began to play from a stack of his singles. Cornell takes great interest in music of the past, the first Jamaican artist I've met who collects his own records. He seemed to enjoy listening to his musical accomplishments, particularly a few things he'd forgotten about, and he was quick and sure with his opinions and recollections

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Question: Was this your first record?

Cornell: No that's the third song I sing. What really happened, as you know I started off with Sir Coxsone Downbeat at Love Lane, 1956, at the age of eleven. A lot of people don't believe I was singing in 1956, as a little boy. Downbeat didn't have a studio by itself, and he was trying to penetrate into the recording business with singers like Derrick Harriott, with Jiving Juniors, me Cornell Campbell. I'm singing a long long time ago, before Ken Boothe, Delroy Wilson, Toots & The Maytals and them guys. Is a long time yeah. So after I sing a string of songs I wasn't really going nowhere at the time. When the records came out they weren't doing so well. Because Jamaican people at that time were so acclimatized to foreign arts. So I started working for Downbeat, doing trade, as a printer. I used to print Downbeat's record labels: Rolando and Powie, All Stars, you name them. Afterwards Don Drummond came on the scene and formed the Skatalites, but when I start singing for Downbeat there was no Skatalites. There was City Slickers, with Hersang, Aubrey Adams, Clue J. I had the pleasure of knowing them. Them a great idol of mine y'know?

Q: How did you come to Coxsone's Attention at such a young age?

CC: I'm going to tell you why. I originally come from Jones Town, with Bob Marley and Alton Ellis and those guys. I was a Christian, a little boy, singing in choir and I was a very good singer. I used to go to Tower Hill Missionary Church. And I had a friend named Kenneth Samuel who rate me as a great singer, more than I think about myself. He wanted me to go into recording. As a friend he went to various producers and stuff like that. And he go to Rico, the trombonist. And Rico was riding a bicycle and he introduce Rico to me, and we told him we were interested in doing recording. We thought Rico was a producer, but he say "nah man I'm not a producer, but I can take yout to Sir Coxsone Downbeat". He was the one who really found that destiny, he told us about Coxsone. And when I went to Sir Coxsone Downbeat, me and my friend, Downbeat line us up for rehearsal. When I went to rehearsal there at Love Lane I see guys like Basil Gabiddon (of the Mellow Larks), Lascelles Perkins, Winston Samuels, Skully & Bunny, Owen Gray. So we form a line and when a guy start to sing Downbeat said; "Where you come from" and the guy say "Trelawney". And Coxsone say "But Jackson you mean to tell me you come from so far to mash up my business?" To me the guy was good but Downbeat was in a bad mood. And the guy was embarrass, so me step out of the line, and go home and me say me nah bother with no singing. Because I think it was too much problem. But my friend still keep on urging me during the weeks that follow. And I make one more try again and go back to Sir Coxsone's. At an audition again. And Hersang now, it was a piano audition, said to me "But all the while I see this little boy come here and I never hear him sing yet. Come man! Mek we hear you man!". And Basil Gabiddon and Alton Ellis and Clancy Eccles and all them: "Yeah man mek we hear you." So I sing this tune with another guy (singing softly in perfect falsetto):

Pretty girl - you are the one I treasure.

Just let me hold you in my arms

And squeeze you oh so tenderly.

You know, I sing the song good, but what spoiled the song my friend wasn't a singer and he keep on singing off-key in the background. So them said: "Mek we hear the little youth alone singin'" That a me, and the other guy ease off. My partner vex with me, he was a sort of jealous man.

Q: Now Pretty Girl (released as My Treasure) was a cover of an American tune?

CC: No. No. I wrote.

Q: At age eleven?

CC: Because I was a original songwriter y'know. Most of the songs then I really write. If I had known that singing was so easy, copying other people's songs, I woulda sang a lot more cover versions.I didn't know that most of the songs some of the big stars them sing was cover versions. And the frustration of just writing song all the while because I never really like singing other people's songs. So I did my first recording for Downbeat called My Treasure. I had the pleasure of meeting the Blues Busters. It was like a family. Everybody. Later on I see Delroy WIlson come on, and Toots & The Maytals. I watch before my eyes everybody coming in. The other side of it was called Wild Oak Tree. (Released under the title Old Oak Tree). I called it Late Date. (This tune was also released under the title Turn Down Date).

The other side of My Treasure was Old King Cole.

Q: Who's the band?

CC: The Skatalites, I mean the guys who became the Skatalites. That's Jah Jerry playing the guitar, even then it was a ska.

Q: Your composition?

CC: Yeah man, I write it.

Q: Where was this done?

CC: Federal Recording Company. When they throw up the red light you can't make one mistake y'know. Anybody make a mistake they tell you re-do it over again. So everybody have to be perfect and try to concentrate in what them doing.

Q: In a little room

CC: Yeah man

Q: The writing credit is to Coxsone Dodd.

CC: (chuckles) No man, guess what happened. Downbeat always take the credit. You see, the recording business is an unscrupulous game. I done lotta original songs and I saw Bunny Lee name on them as writer. I never see those men, not even Coxsone, sit down and write a song. The only thing I see Coxsone do is like if him inspired by a record, him would play an old time 78 and we could listen them and you pick lyrics out of them or whatever. Him do a lot of things like that in those days if he like a record, like a personal singer, or a beat, him say "But Cornell you is a boy that can sing this." Him have song to give to everybody. But he don't really sing nor write a song. Those men don't have the time to sit down and write a song.Yeah they put them name on the record to join up with the publishing. Where the money is.

Roy & Cornell: Salvation (King Edwards, 1964)

CC: This is me and Roy Panton. He was an older guy, a big man. He used to say " bwoy that little guy can sing, he have a good voice." Even Ken Boothe used to be inspire by me when he start singing. He tell me with him own mouth, say, "when I was a little boy, where Downbeat playing out, he used to run to the sound system just to hear you singing." Of course Ken never know he would become so great now. Even Bob Marley sing Rat Race after me, (sings) "Some a gorgon, some a ginegog", he was talking about a tune I did in 1975 called the Gorgon.

Q: This record sounds like a church song.

CC: Well I was a Christian. A little Christian kid. That's Baba Brooks (on trumpet). Yeah man.

Q: What kind of guy was Baba Brooks?

CC: He was fast. Him don't loaf. He was a guy when him get a part him just do it good and him lively. He make the place live up. He come with a style. Each individual character, each individual musician them come different. Them come with them own style. And that's Drumbago the drummer. A lovely song. The only problem is your machine is too slow. (I get up and adjust the pitch control.) Of course it was too slow, I notice it from the first time. (laughs) Now it sounds like when I was recording.

Q: You sound happy on this song.

CC: Yes man. So you see I been with the ska long time before the ska became famous y'know.

Q: I don't know anything about King Edwards.

CC: Him have a good reputation. But to me, him wasn't forceful. Some producer they're not really dominant, they just do the business. But he was a great guy. But I don't think he pick out the talent. Concerning me, I did a rehearsal for him and he liked the songs. The first song I did for him was I'll Be True, (sings): I will ever be true, and I love only you. Song like that - old time ska, it was a great song.I was have a group with King Edwards called the Bell Stars.

Q: Who were the Bellstars?

CC: Me and a guy named George Shaw. We used to kind of sound like the Blues Busters because he used to idolize the Blues Busters and sound like one of them.

Q: That song was from around 1963. What did you do between then and 1956?

CC: I never went back to school. What I did was, I move from Coxsone, from there I went to King Edwards. But it was a little slow then so what I do, I form a group with Slim Smith. Slim Smith was a guy who admire my singing. And him always tell me I must carry him to a producer. So I took him to Sir Coxsone Downbeat, when his name was Keith Smith. Well, people say him sound like me. Right? In those day, but I never really see it, him have his own style, but I know him used to love Jerry Butler and those type of guys. But I used to tell him he must be himself and sound like himself and stop singing like Jerry Butler. And him wrote a couple of songs and I took him to Coxsone. I told Downbeat I have a guy who can sing. And when him sing several songs during Downbeat's lunch hour, Downbeat turn him down: "But Jackson you're not ready yet." And I did feel bad over that. But Slim Smith formed a group with Winston Riley, and Dadum (Frederick Waite), and a brother name Delroy (?). And they did a song for Duke Reid called "Little Did You Know".

Sensations: I Found My Love (Duke Reid, 1966)

Cornell Campbell: The reason I form the Sensations was this way. I'm the one who formed the Sensations: (myself), Jimmy Riley, Buster Riley, his brother was Winston Riley, and Digo (Bobby Davis). I brought Jimmy RIley into singing, I introduce him to singing.

Q: So you were in two groups with Jimmy Riley, the Sensations and also the Uniques

CC: We formed the Uniques with Slim Smith, but we didn't make a record. But because so much singer was in the Uniques I figured to myself it was not an ideal for the group to have so many leaders. Right? I never really play an important part with the Uniques. So I get two guys from Spanish Town and form the Eternals.

The Eternals: Stars (Studio One, 1969)

Q: Who were the Eternals?

CC: A brother named Ken Fife and Errol Wisdom. We started with Coxsone, with Stars.

Q: Who wrote this?

CC: Me, I wrote it. And that's me playing guitar. And I arranged it. When I wrote Stars, Johnny Nash have a song named Cupid and all them songs,and I wanted to write a song like that. So I grab a box guitar and start to find a good song to go to Sir Coxsone. So I write Stars and I write Queen Of The Minstrels as two soul songs. I never intend to sing it like a reggae. But Richard Ace, the keyboard guy, him say to me during the recording sessions: "Cornell I don't feel the vibes on the soul song y'know - why not rock it nuh?" So him say why not do one cut fast and one cut in a soul music. So I do this one first and him say to me: "No bother do it again as a soul music, cause this one sound good. Keep it so." And (Eric) Frater was supposed to play guitar, but he didn't turn up. But them say: "Cornell, you're a good guitarist man - you play man and let the session gwan." That's why you hear me strumming in the background.

Q: Did it take a long time to put this arrangement together?

CC: No because I'm a professional musician, that's why. I teach all them guys what to play by strumming guitar. And Coxsone want to take credit for it, he put him name pon the version side. But it's really me: writer, arranger and all those things. Horns were Vin Gordon and Headly Bennett, Leroy Sibbles on bass.

Q: A perfect song. I always thought it must have been written by Curtis Mayfield.

CC: No man (laughter). I might have a sound like him but it's me write the song. Me find the melody, the lyrics, the changes.

The Eternals: Queen Of The Minstrel (Studio One, 1969)

I record both of them the same day. Same session.I write it as a soul song and automatically they put it reggae and I never bother sing it as soul song again. I did three songs that day. The other one was Just Can't Find Loving.

Q: Do you play records at home? Or cds?

CC: I play both.

Q: You still have your records?

CC: Yeah yeah. I have a collection of oldies. I come like a collector y'know. I collect old music.

My Darling, (Soul Sound, 1971)

CC: I want this one! I was searching this song - you know how long I want this song? Ah! This was Ronnie Bop, and Reggie (Lewis), the Upsetters man! They used to play with Bob Marley. They were the guitar players for the Upsetters.

Q: The producer credit is A. Folder, who was he?

CC: He used to work at Dynamics, and did a little producing. I want it man! This is the first time I hear this in so much years!

Q: I'll burn it for you.

CC: Cause I don't have it in my collection. I keep them in a library y'know. I don't really play them.

Q:WHo's the organ player?

CC: Capo. (Glen Adams, keyboardist fro the Upsetters). This was many years ago. I write it, find the changes and everything.

Q: And then (flipping the record) the version side has this nice organ overdub:

CC: Winston Wright. I remember this. Reggie was jumping up in the studio "This gone! Hit!" I remember it.

We recorded this late in the evening at Dynamic.

Let The Music Keep On Playing (Alvin Ranglin, 1970)

This is Jimmy Riley, Lloyd Charmers, Busty Brown, and me. I recorded this already at Treasure Isle but this one was done at Dynamics. It was Jimmy Riley's idea to do it over. I formed the group, we called ourselves the Links. We was trying something new. We just made the one record.

The Gorgon (Bunny Lee, 1975)

Q: Where did the Gorgon thing come from? Was it a slang?

CC: It was a slang. Because when Johnny Clarke came on the scene for Bunny Lee, it was me who really who make Johnny Clarke get the bust out. Bunny Lee gave me a tune to sing name None Shall Escape The Judgment. I was supposed to sing it. But the song came from a singer who did write that song.

Q: Yeah, Earl Zero

CC:Yeah, that you know. And Bunny Lee gave me to sing. But through Bunny owe me some money I never sing at same time. I had intention to sing it but I didn't wanted Bunny Lee to pay me and so. So through it take so long coming to the studio, and Johnny Clarke was there and Bunny Lee got him to sing the song. "All right, me go try it with Johnny Clarke". So he gives Johnny Clarke a try with it. So Johnny Clarke bust that song! And when Johnny Clarke bust now, Bunny Lee said to me say "You see what make Johnny Clarke bust? If you'd sing this song you would a gone!" And me say "no, that not wrong man." So then I came with Gun Court Law, It was like a competition thing, after Johnny Clarke sang None Shall Escape The Judgment. And then Johnny Clarke came with Enter Into His Gates With Praise to counteract me. And when I hear Johnny Clarke going on me say "Wha man, me haffi come with sumpin better than this one". So me go and me go sit down and write a song name (singing): "Well I went to a dance down at Greenwich Farm, King Tubby's and the dreads was there". (The song was titled Dance In Greenwich Farm.) And then when Johnny Clarke hear that now, Johnny Clarke come with (sings): "Move out of Babylon." Right? Cause Johnny Clarke get boast y'know ca' he come with a big tune? So me go and me say "you think how so it go?", and me say (singin) "Comin' from the North with my face to the South, I'm quite sure I can knock you out - I am the Gorgon." Right? (This song was titled The Gorgon)And it just go on, go on. Then Bob Marley pick it up and sing "Some a Gorgon, some a Ginegog, in this rat race". Bwoy - is a long history.

Natty Dread In Greenwich Farm (Bunny Lee, 1975)

And then me cover a tune name Natty Dread In A Greenwich Farm right? And now that start blast off (sings: "Natty dreadlocks up in all the streets, them Babylon dem cannot keep them feet") Yeah I come with that song.

Q: This is a Bob Marley riddim.

CC: No no no no.

Q Natty Dread?

CC; No man. A me write it, All the changes, them are me. But the only thing is, some of Bob Marley's musicians played on this. That's Family Man playing bass. That's Santa playing drums. You see the same musicians playing with Bob Marley play with me too. Bob Marley was a cool brother. A nice guy. I always like him.

Lost In A Dream (Bunny Lee, 1975)

Oh. I remember this one too. Bunny Lee.

Q: The chord changes here...

CC: Yes that's me. Most musicians, them think I give them problem because I come with a lot of changes and stuff in songs, because them love songs with one chord alone. Right through the song. That can be done fast. But my songs are more difficult and it takes time to learn them and change them properly. That's because I'm a guitarist.

Q: Do you still write songs?

CC: Yes man - I have a lot of songs I write.

Q: But in today's recording world, can you get them done?

CC: That is a problem. Because I have the voice and I have the beat - I can sit down on any riddim. . The only difference, I don't love to sing some songs, that's why. I don't like singing immoral songs that don't really mean anything. I don't really get into it. I like singing things that make sense. Foundation stuff.

Q: The last time I was in Jamaica the music was just crap everywhere I'd go.

CC: It's crap. It's just one man lick one drum boom-boom-boom-boom and the guy nah singin' no melody. off key. Bwoy trust me - everything get backward. You find people up on television: "Oh this guy can sing!" And the guy can't sing. Him just singing off-key, and one riddim over this and just singing foolishness. Man. I think the reason why it go so , I think the reason is the commercial thing. It's advertisment. When they advertise something it play more than what not advertise, and in that situation the people get to learn them. The youths nowadays them, them coming up like how you buy fast food. Them travel pon the fast lane.. Nobody want to take the time and sit down and write. If them can make a money by just saying "hey diddle diddle, the cat and the fiddle.", so them just do that. It's simple for them. Them don't have the time to go sing about nature, and real things that could elevate them.

Undying Love (Bunny Lee, 1975)

This song was written by Ernest Wilson

Q: Who is singing with you?

CC: Jackie Edwards singing low harmony & Barry Biggs singing high.

Q: Do you have to protect your voice?

CC: Nothing special, becaue you just live good, take care of your body, eat good food. Because I may believe my voice is a gift from God and I believe that God protect me. God give it to me.

Q: When did you know that you had this gift?

CC: It's not a matter of knowing that y'know, it's just that I was a person who love to do things out of the ordinary. I have this vibe to sing and play music, blow the mouth organ, bang the guitar. But I didn't know which of them I really make it with. But in the church they see me as a good singer and they encourage me. I was a good choir singer. I know that I could sing after a while then. And I was inspired by my friend Kenneth Samuels who give me more encouragement who push hard for me to get into the recording business.

Q: But a lot of falsetto singers lose their high voices as they get older.

CC: I know. I never lost it. As I said before, in this world you have to give. You have to give and you receive back. What I do, I respect that very much. I don't live an ungodly life where I don't respect God and nature. So I think maybe that's why God allow me this. But if you live without God, you will drink too much and you might smoke too much and He might take away all those things from you. Even though most of the men smoke them pipe and them drink a lot of rum and them don't care and them bleach every night, then they lose their voice and they lose something. Y'know what I mean? You have to respect yourself. You have to live up to certain principles. You have regulation and rule in life where you have to live up to certain standards. And if you live up to them, you continue living good for years. You know? That's me. You just live good.

Investigator (Bunny Lee, 1977)

This one I wrote it for me and the Eternals, ten years before this release, but I never get a chance because we split up. So I just record it with Robbie Shakespeare singing harmony and Skully also (on harmony).

Keep On Pushing (Martin Williams, 1977)

Oh. I remember this song. This song I did it for a brother who gone a England now. He was a student. He's a journalist now, he was young then, a student. He came and said he'd like to do a thing together. He was inexperienced and he appreciated my help. Well the record business move from one direction to another direction. But yet you have to get yourself in line, I'm a versatile singer - I can go in any new thing.

You Walking (Earthquake, Ossie Hibbert, 1981)

Boxing Around (Joe Gibbs, 1981)

Oh this one - You Walking - I remember it. Ossie Hibbert production. I recorded at Joe Gibbs studio. I recorded this at the same time as Boxing. With Beres Hammond and Tyrone Taylor singing harmony. Beres Hammond was much younger them time.

Q: You live in a small town near Negril?

CC: Well, you could call it a small and a major town as well, cause everybody have to drive past it to go to Negril. The Gladiators come from near by, Treasure Beach. And Tyrone Taylor, he lives nearby. It's Santa Cruz. I'm living at Lovely Point at Santa Cruz.

Q: Is that where you're from?

CC: No no no no. I'm a Kingstonian. I born in Jonestown, near Trenchtown, a part of Trenchtown. I moved out a long time ago.

I Heart Is Clean (Niney, 1976)

I want this one too. This was the only song I did for Niney. The original was "My Heart Is Gone" but I did it as "My Heart Is Clean".

A Yuh (Cornell Campbell, 1980)

CC: A Uniques song.

Q: Slim Smith had some problems at the end of his life?

CC: Yes yes some very serious problem. But I don't really like to talk about it. But there was some problem with Bunny Lee. Bunny Lee used to tell him that me coulda sing better than he. And him frustrated by him telling him that......And him get frustrated about some other things. It was terrible. Was me who recorded this song myself and I give to somebody to put out. But it was me who produce it.

Q: Did Slim Smith write this?

CC: Yes. He write a lot of songs.

Lion Of Judah (Bunny lee)

CC: This is a next version of "Conquering Gorgon", the lyrics come from a church song.

Q: The producer is Glen Lee, related to Bunny Lee?

CC: He was Bunny Lee's Brother, but he don't really know producing. Bunny Lee just give him those songs, and him put his name on them to make some money. You understand me?

Q. Yeah

CC: This song was recorded at King Tubby's studio you know.

Q: In his little studio?

CC; Yeah. That was the first one we record at Tubby's studio. He used to cut dub plate there alone. But Bunny Lee urge him to do a recording, and one day I was there, and him say "but Tubs you have the studio, you can voice songs here." And he say no, he not taking any chance, cause him don't really equip for that. But Bunny Lee force him and say "make Cornell Campbell voice two tunes now." And him say "As long as you're not putting them out everything all right. But don't put them out cause I don't want everybody laugh after it." And Bunny Lee string the mike in the studio and I sing two song. (sings) Ain't no love, ain't no love like my baby's love" (Eddie Floyd's "I Never Found A Girl") and Slim Smith was singing harmony. And a brother name of Macka. I can't remember the other song. So, then Bunny Lee put it out behind King Tubby's back. And it did do good. So King Tubby get inspiration to set up a studio. That's where Tubby's now started.

Wherever I Lay My Hat (Robbie Shakespeare, 1975)

CC: This is a cover version.

Q: Marvin Gaye.

CC: Yeah. I didn't know it was Marvin Gaye at the time. There was a guy named Winston (Delano Stewart) who sing with the Gaylads. He did it first. This is a good recording. Because they (the backing band, the Aggrovators) change perfectly to what I'm singing. It not like with them guys doing now, they just sing over one chord alone and they change with them voice and the band don't change with them.

Q: And a lot of guys now if they sing over something with a chord change they just run past it.

CC: Yeah, too hard for them.

Pride and Joy (Ossie Hibbert, 1980)

CC:Oh I remember this one, it was for Ossie Hibbert.

Q: Wicked.

CC: Yeah man. Bad tune. I think I record this song at Joe Gibbs studio. Do have "Chain Gang"?

Q: No I didn't bring it. You like that song?

: You like Sam Cooke?

CC: Yeah he was a good singer. I always like good singers.

Q: Did you hear a lot fo his songs when you were growing up?

CC No. What happened when I start singing I never used to hear 'bout Sam Cooke until many years after. To me it come like I was singing before Sam Cooke. I remember when him came with Chain Gang many years after.

Ragamuffin Fowl (King Tubby, 1987)

CC: King Tubby's. When it come out it play a lot on the radio stations.

Q: Do you still do dancehall rhythms like this?

CC: Yeah. I intend to do some new songs, but I wait upon a good deal, with a good producer. What I do now I try to set up my own studio. But in the meantime since my studio don't finish yet, I'll try to get a good deal.

Q: When did you start doing shows in the United States?

CC: A long time, I think it was in the 80s. I used to do shows in Brooklyn. Several times. But most of my shows are in England, or other countries like Japan.

Q: Do you like travelling abroad.

CC: I don't like planes. I like everywhere, but I don't like the airplanes. I just don't like to be high up there, because you can't jump out of there.

Q: Do you have family in Jamaica.

CC: Yeah. My children, dem trying fe set up themselves. Most of them set up themselves. I have one going to university, Christina Campbell. She doing law. And another one doing medical. So them really set up themselves. And Nicholas Campbell, my son, him doing auto business. Sales and so. So y'know. I spend money on them during my singing career. When I used to sing dub plate I save my money to send them to good school. Sacrifice myself and see that them get a good education. I never wanted them to come up from the bottom. So I just sacrifice myself and when them pass them exam I send them to high school and pay the money for that. But them ambitious and work, and come up.

Q: So you're very different from a lot artists. A lot of them just take the money and.....

CC: Gone. Yeah, I don't believe in gone. I don't want my children to worry or suffer 'cause I set them up. I buy several pieces of land, I have six acres of land in Linstead, and I have land in St. Elizabeth, and I have land again at Lovely Point. And my children work and buy land for themselves. So if anything must happen to me they won't worry. And my woman now have everything.to work on, because I set up this big store (Campbell's Variety Store, located in St. Elizabeth) and I put her in it and make she run it, so she don't work for nobody. Ca' I don't to see them work for nobody. She's the boss for her own business and she doing good. And it make a lot of security for them. So them independent now - I set them up. So everybody is comfortable.

Q: Fantastic, because one of the hard things about loving Jamaican music is that so many artists have been unsuccessful financially.

CC: I have always been independent of singing, I always believe in doing something on the other side. That is why when I start my singing career with Downbeat when I was a little kid, I also learn printing. I print Studio One label dem, because I wanted to have a profession after I'm done singing. After many years I drop the printing. And I used to own part of a bar, a go-go club and them t'ing. But I give up those things because them things are too strenuous. Me no like things where you have to work so hard.

Q: Didn't Coxsone used to have his printing right there at Brentford Road?

CC: That was when he move from Love Lane. I used to run them at Love Lane. When he buy Brentford Road he used to have the one of the Heptones run the printing press. Before that I used to print the labels on a linotype machine. Now times change, but I used to run the old time things. Composite and stuff like that. And then I leave that job and work at a bigger printer. I was a very good printer. When the Queen come to Jamaica, I used to print all the invitations for the House Of Parliament, for the Governor General. The printing was excellent, good. But I still couldn't keep those jobs because every night me gone with a different band and every day I'd come in late and the company couldn't depend on me. So I have to leave that job and just take up singing professionally, through Bunny Lee, he was the man who enabled me to leave those jobs. Because he said to me: "Cornell, I like how you can sing, mek we do a business, the two of us." And I believe in him and I do it. But he never record on my behalf, he record on his behalf. Ca' when the money was coming in he used to hide the money behind my back. Yeah. But I still never give up. And I realized singing wasn't paying much money. So I bought a chicken farm. I raise goats, plenty goats on an acre of land. I do a lot of different things.

Q: So a big hit song like The Gorgon, how much would he pay you.

CC: I never get no money for those hit songs. All I get was pure name. Just name. Is not me alone. Like Desmond Dekker and all those singers many years ago, them never was making no real money. One year he had a number one song. But them men carry themselves and look good and them wear clothes and so, but them wasn't making no real money. And there was a time in my career where I say "I can't take this no longer, I have to set up something for myself." I had to live off of something, so I start buying land and all those things. Then I set me up a store down in Kingston. But a lot of singers, them don't invest money in business. Them sing a big tune and get a money for tune and maybe them just drink too much or them take drugs. Y'know? But I bank my money, when I get good money I bank it. Me no spend money. Keep money in my pocket. But most young guys, young singers, when they get money they show it off and spend it and the next week them broke. I don't do that, I save money.

Q: Are your kids involved in music?

CC: Well, the reason why them never get into music is I prefer to get an education first. But them can really sing, trust me. And they always say: "Daddy how you don't want me to sing?" And I say: "You can really sing fi true, you sound better than me.But I don't want you to go 'pon the road that me go 'pon."

Q: When you were growing up did you have musicians in your family?

CC: Not really. My father would sing, but not professionally. He would just sing for singing's sake. But he used to love Mario Lanza and them type of singers. My father used to like old time singers, like opera singers. He used to work for the Carib Amusement Company - the theater, Carib Theater. (note: The Carib Theater, built in 1938 was, at 1,000,000 cubic feet, the largest building in Jamaica, with a ceiling designed to create the illusion of being under the Caribbean Sea, looking up to the surface.) So when I was a kid now I used to go show free, I never used to pay to go to any theater. Like Odeon. Tropical. I just carry a pass book and go there free.

Q: The Ward Theater used to have talent contests, did you ever compete?

CC: I could go there, but I never did. Like Opportunity Hour. I was never interested at that time. I just deal with the recording business straight, I just went and cut records alone, without any contests.

Q: So I think I'll let you rest.

CC: Yeah man, no problem. It was nice interview.

Q: Are you ok for food and everything here?

CC: Well, I don't want to put you to any stress. But just some fish patties and rice.

Q: Well, the closest thing to that would be some fish and chips.

CC: OK, some fish and some Red Stripe.

Q: They don't have Red Stripe here.

CC: Oh?

Together: Heinekin.

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I delivered his meal and as I left Cornell gave me a flier for his shop("Campbell's Variety Store - For The Very Latest In Fashion') which now hangs in my studio. The store motto, "Quality Stuff At Good Prices", still makes me smile and also reminds me that Cornell had come through tough times but had earned a good portion of success still. As he once sang:

I say it's funny if you don't have no money at all

No no, you'll never never get nothing at all

It's not my idol

But I wish I wish to my God

that he'll let me have some

To make me a man.

"Money"

The next day Cornell Campbell, the Conquering Gorgon, the King of the Minstrels, took the stage wearing a kris khaki suit and delivered perfect renditions of a dozen or so of his best songs. It was the hottest part of the day and the band was thin so Cornell sang his own background choruses. But the crowd was jumping and and was full of people who seemd to know and love his tunes. Watching from the crowd you couldn't guess by his appearance that this was an artist who had been making records for fifty years. Nor could you tell by listening. Perhaps the most remarkable thing about this extraordinary man is that his flawless voice was untarnished, seemingly impervious to the passage of time. There definitely is something very spiritual in all this and also probably in his choice of Gorgon as a nickname. A Gorgon, I've since learned, was a mythical figure, usually depicted with snakes for hair, placed on buildings and shields and amulents as protection against Evil.

But also it's just a nickname for a guy who rules the dancehall:

Coming from the North

With my face to the South

I'm quite sure

I can knock you out

I am the Gorgon, in this yah dance

I am the Gorgon, in this yah dance

I don't mess with the East

Or the West

I leave the public

To suggest

I am the Gorgon, in this yah dance

I am the Gorgon, in this yah dance

Hush up your mouth man

Sip your stout

This yah natty dread

Know what him talking bout

I am the Gorgon, in this yah dance

I am the Gorgon, in this yah dance

- The Gorgon

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Thanks to Daniel Frankston and Elliott Lieb for their help with the interview.